http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/ap_on_go_co/grassley_aig
Should execs commit Hari Keri when their companies fail to perform? (See above news story) ....
How do YOU feel about the AIG bonuses?
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Just things I wonder about ... and some people are nice enough to answer. You are welcome to answer, too ... just click on "Comments" and off you go! IF you don't want to be Anonymous, use the Name/URL option and just put in your name ... no URL required .... Starting Jan 28th, 2009, I am using questions from "Table Topics: Right or Wrong?"
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8 comments:
1st topic: The comments made by a government official:
I am outraged. To suggest that someone go commit suicide over a financial situation is just wrong. Did the suicide of J. Clifford Baxter help matters in the Enron case? Did it help his family? Did it help the employees and investors of Enron? NO. If anything, it made matters even worse. And to suggest it is just wrong.
2nd topic: The bonus’ paid by AIG
The bonus’ should not have been paid or should not be. Not sure if they have been or not. The news stories are a little sketchy on that fact. The contracts providing for the payment of the bonuses should have been broken or amended. Or the funds allocated but not paid until the government bail out was paid off.
But, on the other hand, I do not see where our government can do some of the things they are saying they want to do: The latest I have seen is that there are bills being drafted that will tax the individual receiving the bonuses at 100% if they receive a bonus in excess of $100,000.
Who picked that threshold? If $1 of my tax money went to AIG and it was then given as a bonus to an executive, I want my $1 given back to the government to pay for the military, roads, medicare, social security or whatever else my tax dollars SHOULD be paying for.
The whole issue of the government bailing out companies is going to get much worse. Much much worse. Socialism here we come.
I have advocated for a very long time now the following:
1. Where the facts are incontrovertible, prosecute. Afterall we prosecuted Saddam Hussein in the name of Iraqi Justice.
2. Sentence them to death!
3. Execute them on live TV not in primetime.
It'll make it You Tube anyway, and there is worse video out there on the web. The very next day CEO's will go into the office and say 'darn, I thought I'd get a trip to the racquet ranch, I can now lose my life as a result of being morally indifferent to the human suffering of others a la economics."
You all just don't get it. Terrorism - We got to play by their rules because if we take the high road, WE LOSE!
Economic Indifference and Depravity - It is unconscionable for a few CEO’s to throw Billions of people into a life of economic depression with the audacity to say to the world at large that it is their problem and that they do not wish to mingle with the riff-raff that they have so much disdain for. It is as if they feel that it is their money, not yours and mine, that they get to play with as if they are a child in a candy store with someone else’s piggy bank.
In the scheme of things I find it very hard to have any lower feelings than I already have for these scum. They rank right up there with pedophiles and murderers in my opinion, and are probably just as twisted in their own right with unabated lust for power and money and all that entails.
Like Metallica – Kill em’ ALL! I hereby volunteer for the firing squad, and if you doubt me, try me. If they are going to execute these fiends, I’ll be one of the first in line with millions of others just as dedicated. It’s time to send a message that we will not tolerate this sort of behavior whether legal or not. Their lust for power makes them cowards, they won't take their own lives. Should have started the executions with Milken and Keating!
Okay .... Let me list out the #'s here so you can SEEE them. Seems tome that words like million, billion, and trillion are having ZERO effect on people ... maybe the size of the numbers and their relationship will??
$170 Billion is $170,000,000,000
$93 Billion is $93,000,000,000
$165 Million is $165,000,000
Okay .... Count the zeros .... now listen to this.
$170 Billion is how much the US government spent to "bailout" AIG.
$93 Billion is how much AIG has since sent to European Companies who are part of their conglomerate .... here is the link about that ... http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090317/tbs-uk-aig-goldmansachs-analysis-sb-03c9bed.html
$165 million is how much AIG spent on contractural bonuses to employees.
Now ... let's do the Math ...
93 Billion / 170 Billion = 54.7 % of the Bailout money WENT TO EUROPE!!!
165 Million / 170 Billion = .097 % went to pay contracted bonuses .... yes ... the decimal is inthe correct place. Not even 1% .... not even One-Tenth of a percent!! And this money went to US Citizens who worked under contract to AIG.
This seems to me to b a HUGE case of Obama and company saying .... "Look over here!! Look at this!!!" while meanwhile far, far worse things are happening with their total knowledge.
Why isn't anyone screaming about the European companies getting all of that US Taxpayer money? HUH???
Oh .... and suggesting people should commit suicide over this stuff?
Not Suicide .... but the people who think bailing out failing companies using taxpayer money is a Good Idea? THEY should QUIT!!!! It seems they are already committing political suicide .... fess up and walk away!
Cincin - Great job at putting the facts in perspective. Hugh - i am sorry to disagree with you but in our land, there is a such thing as the concept of punishment fitting the crime. Is the crime aweful or aggregious? Yes! Is it heinous or did it cause horrific loss of human life? No. These people shouldn't be shot, nor should they commit suicide for our viewing pleasure. Thank you very little!
The bonuses should be paid because AIG is legally bound to do so by contract. That contract is still in full force (whether we like it or not). A bailout DOES NOT and may i repeat DOES NOT void the contract!
As my wife eloquently pointed out, AIG can decide at their own risk and peril to break the contract but they would be legally responsible for their actions in that instance. They could file for Chapter 11 and then the contracts would be stayed pending a bankruptcy hearing and determination of the creditors. Or AIG could simply shut its doors and dissolve the company and see what happens. Which would create an even bigger mess.
Cincin is right - our Government is doing something far worse than AIG did in making bad business decisions, they are performing a bait and switch on the American public.
This much I will guarantee you, the Congress will fritter away more money this year alone than AIG will pay out in bonuses, make in profit, or payout in expenses COMBINED!
PEF - Ponder this from Dec 23rd, 2008.
"UPDATED: The NYPD confirmed that Thierry Magon de La Villehuchet, founder and head of hedge fund Access International Advisors which invested heavily with Bernard Madoff, was found dead in his Madison Avenue office. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told Bloomberg News, “Our investigative premise is that it was a suicide."
Kelly said de La Villehuchet, 65, was found "with his feet propped up on his desk, a trash pail nearby to collect blood"; he had “multiple stab wounds” to his arms and wrists, plus a box-cutter and pills were found nearby. It is not believed a second person was involved and no suicide note was found. De La Villehuchet had apparently worked late and a cleaning staff found him this morning."
Moral of the story - this is just one suicide that is attributted to Madoff. There are thousands of people on this blue marble that are pondering suicide because of the current financial crisis. Madoff just as well should have given him the gun and bullets. Just because Villehuchet pulled the trigger makes Madoff no less culpable because Madoff precipitated the conditions that lead to Villehuchet taking his own life, and yes he used a knife and pills and not a gun.
Thats the differnce between you bleeding heart liberals and myself. Madoff KNEW what he was doing, and choose to continue his fraud with depraved indifference to the carnage that would result due to his lust for greed. If you haven't guessed by now they use terms like that for murderers, and Madoff is a murderer. The day we throw off these shackles of 'civility' as regards our so called 'law' that permits people to collapse whole ECONOMIES and they get a slap on the hand, IF THAT, then we'll all be better off. You have to send a message to the world that this behavior whether legal or not will not be tolerated - PERIOD! - Kill Em' All!
Hugh, Madoff will be punished by the law as he should be. Neither you, nor I have a right under the laws of this land to take his life for the crimes he committed.
I do NOT condone what Madoff or any other CONFIDENCE Man does, but we are capitalist society and scams have existed and will exist. My simple points are these and they are not bleeding heart liberal ones either as you characterized:
1. Use the existing laws and punish the criminals accordingly. If you want to write new ones, go ahead but the punishment should fit the crime.
2. Each of the individuals you named made a PERSONAL choice to commit suicide and only THEY are responsible for that decision NOT MADOFF or anyone else.
3. Tragic as the suicides are, the individuals facing financia ruin, had options such as bankruptcy and restructuring or eliminating their unsecured debts and starting over. I realize this sucks but the reality is that many people have done this in our history and have not only survived but flourished.
Hugh .... point well taken about Maddoff .... however Maddoff and AIG are two totally different situations .... Maddoff is going to prison and deserves to do so and should also be made to pay back as much money as they can get out of his estate ...
AIG was bailed out by the Federal Government using our taxpayer money without our taxpayer approval. AIG should have been allowed to go bankrupt. But the Feds sent AIG $170 Billion with $30 billion more in the works ... and AIG has sent 1/2 of that to Europe ....
BUT all you HEAR about in the news right now is the $165 Million being paid in salary to the employees of AIG.
If I worked for a company, I would expect to get paid based on my contract. The Feds approved those contracts in the bailout. Now someone is screaming I should committ suicide?? I don't think so!!
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